Ocean Flats Discussion

15 hours ago, $OUTH$IDE$UICIDE said:

its SAMP(a game, not actual san francisco), people can create factions wherever they want to like come on lol.

yeah but having 10 illegal black factions in ocean flats is kinda too much y' kno?

37 minutes ago, Crawler said:

 

yeah but having 10 illegal black factions in ocean flats is kinda too much y' kno?

Everything will get weeded out. You'll get left with 2-3 factions after a couple months. That's inevitable.

San Fierro isn't a replica of San Francisco, it's modeled after it yes, but we have to accommodate it to the player base and a significant portion of the player base are gangbangers. There should be a place for civilians, but that shouldn't be a priority - they are a minority, like it or not. Civilians usually fit in among the crime anyway.

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Since the server is called Bay Area Role-Play, San Fierro is based on San Francisco. So by that logic it would be perfectly fine to have a white majority in all ghetto areas of Los Santos and a black majority in the city. 

 

When did the server leading parties ''establish'' that OF will be an area of gang activity, i'm genuinely curious to know.

That's not what this topic is about.

 

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it was going to be for "gang activity," but rather for catering to a low-class neighborhood considering the mapping that was implemented. But, once again, I'll repeat myself, the server isn't based on/in/near San Francisco. There is no Twin Peaks, Japantown, etc etc... 

And, I'll repeat this again to make it clear -> the server isn't even open yet, nothing is set in stone, and anyone can still head over to Ocean Flats to make it their home. It's pointless to keep bringing it up as the server isn't even open yet lol. 

19 hours ago, Keanu_Petrosyan said:

Perhaps just let things unfold in character. It’s way too early to be deciding what goes where because the servers role play dynamics can’t fully be established  on forums 

Quote

And, I'll repeat this again to make it clear -> the server isn't even open yet, nothing is set in stone, and anyone can still head over to Ocean Flats to make it their home. It's pointless to keep bringing it up as the server isn't even open yet lol. 

You're right but it's pretty certain the little district of OF will be the gang capital of America, not because of the standards of living and the location. But because most of the playerbase here is tired of LSRP.

3 hours ago, Neaksy said:

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/113-fight-for-freedom/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/390-ocean-flats-norteños-xiv/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/417-ocean-blocc-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/520-rollin-30s-original-harlem-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/647-north-highland-gangster-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1198-haskell-street-locos-13/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1338-nateville-black-p-stones/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1801-fruit-town-brims/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1742-w-latin-kings/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/2002-cold-cut-bloods/

 

No point having a server in San Fierro if everybody's going to copy LA gangs, create Crips and Bloods let alone in a neighborhood that isn't fit for them. If suddenly Ganton was flooded with upper class white factions in their supercars RPing having lived there all along I'm sure many of the gangs originally roleplaying there would be pissed

 

If you're going to import the factions you wanted to make on LS-RP this isn't the server, Ocean Flats is right next to a beach, the City Hall, an upper class country club and includes a cathedral with unique architecture, none of this would make sense for OF to become a ghetto

19 minutes ago, ChrisRawr said:

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said it was going to be for "gang activity," but rather for catering to a low-class neighborhood considering the mapping that was implemented. But, once again, I'll repeat myself, the server isn't based on/in/near San Francisco. There is no Twin Peaks, Japantown, etc etc... 

 

And, I'll repeat this again to make it clear -> the server isn't even open yet, nothing is set in stone, and anyone can still head over to Ocean Flats to make it their home. It's pointless to keep bringing it up as the server isn't even open yet lol. 

Just because some districts are missing doesn't mean the city isn't based on it, on the contrary I can point to you many other landmarks that are there, Castro, Russian Hills, Chinatown, Fort Point, Pacific Heights... The map being not to scale with the real city doesn't mean anything.

You say nothing is set in stone yet the server mapping indicates otherwise, the texture changes in Ocean Flats to degentrify the district are real, this isn't just based on the factions that are there but the catering from the staff to enable those gangs to turn a clearly middle class area into the next Idlewood. There are too few areas for illegal street gangs by default in-game (for good reason, LS already offers these areas), forcing this change is a mistake.

This shouldn't be a turf war between gangs and civilians.

9 minutes ago, Neaksy said:

 

Just because some districts are missing doesn't mean the city isn't based on it, on the contrary I can point to you many other landmarks that are there, Castro, Russian Hills, Chinatown, Fort Point, Pacific Heights... The map being not to scale with the real city doesn't mean anything.

 

You say nothing is set in stone yet the server mapping indicates otherwise, the texture changes in Ocean Flats to degentrify the district are real, this isn't just based on the factions that are there but the catering from the staff to enable those gangs to turn a clearly middle class area into the next Idlewood. There are too few areas for illegal street gangs by default in-game, forcing this change is a mistake.

 

This shouldn't be a turf war between gangs and civilians.

If BA-RP doesn't want San Fierro to be based off of San Francisco, then that's how the server is going to play out.

Like I said before, they are accommodating the map for the player base, not for realists. A majority of roleplayers are gangbangers and whilst it is unfortunate that a lot have claimed Ocean Flats all the weaker factions will get weeded out after a couple months of brief chaos. Is it ideal? No, of course it isn't. That's just the way it is though.

I agree with the fact that Carlton Heights is ideal for gang roleplay, but if they're retexturing Ocean Flats to accommodate the significant amount of gang roleplayers in the community, I don't see a problem with it.

There are plenty of places in San Fierro for middle-class civilians. There aren't that many for gangs, which is a significant portion of the SA:MP community, whether we like it or not. If you really want to catch San Fran vibes from the area, there are loads of other places you can go to which fit this niche.

San Fierro is a perception of reality, not reality itself. It is crucial we understand this to avoid confusions like this.

So if most players want to role-play gangs making those gangs that realistically are not even fit to exist in the places they do (OF), it's a role-play server and people can role-play whatever they want. If there was a Nigeria role-play server and the White and Asian populations vastly outnumbered africans, it's a role-play server and people can role-play whatever they want.

Calton heights is actually more fit to host a poor or criminal environment because of the cold urban life but no.. must have muh gang shit with alleyways ye ye and family houses just like in LS.

Wow, some of you lot really can't roleplay something different, can you?

Instead of focusing on gangs and gangs alone why don't you lot try and form an actual community revolving around your specific characters? I've never seen ghettos being portrayed the right way on many servers because people simply choose to roleplay copy-paste characters and call it development just because they "start" their characters at an earlier age. OK, Ocean Flats can have a bit of a lower-income crime problem, why not? It adds to the diversity of the server's landscape and I even tried to cater to that when I wrote the census, but why do you just copy the same gangs that have been around in Los Santos? Realism isn't supposed to copy gangs from "real life," you can quite literally invent a type of gang specific to San Fierro and it would be much more appreciated than your copy-paste crips/blood bullshit.

Y'all take the whole real life ordeal a little too seriously. Let it be dealt with in-game. No worthwhile server is gonna restrict where factions can roleplay anyway.

This server is not going to be a carbon-copy of San Francisco. It was never intended to be, that's a goal which is unattainable and frankly not desirable. Demographically speaking, you can not compare this video game to real life, point blank period. We're a small community of a few thousand, currently. When the server launches, we're realistically going to be looking at a small community of a few hundred. You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think we can actively mirror any type of real life demographic. People are bringing up real-life statistics to a city which has almost 1,000,000 people in it, we have to cater to a player-base of a few hundred people. There is no way we're going to match any statistical demographic you find. I think it's important to remember that we're playing a video game and the main goal for everyone involved is to have fun and make memories along the way. It would be absurd for us to try and play sheep-dog and dissuade criminals from opening factions wherever they please. 

I'll say it one more time for people in the back. We are not going to base anything on this server off of real-life demographics. If you're passionate enough to spark a discussion on this topic then you should hopefully also be smart enough to understand it will be impossible for us to match any real life demographic considering that people can change a character in the snap of a finger and the average life span is weeks to months. Also, America has a rich history which directly correlates to demographics. We're starting from scratch with absolutely no history and 1/3rd of the tools modern-day America has to make that region the demographic it is. This server is a blank canvas and will be painted the way players choose.

Another important note, the factions you see all sprawled around Ocean Flats are solely faction threads. It's very easy to make a faction thread and wait for a server to open, but when this server does open, I can almost guarantee you will see three or four factions actually in game, role-playing around the area. As a caveat to that, we're not racially designating neighborhoods. The organic growth of this server is contingent on the players and where they decide to create factions and roleplay, we will not interfere with that process. To the people saying you hope this place won't become LS:RP v2, don't act like you didn't enjoy your time on LS:RP and that everything they did was wrong. I know I had a lot of fun when I played there and they did a lot of things right, which you seem to forget. I know for a fact at least one of you "hoping" this doesn't become LS:RP v2 still post on their forums and are involved in their community. You need to let go of whatever grudge you have with LS:RP and move on, we're not doing anything with the intent to replicate LS:RP or anything to be a polar opposite of LS:RP. We are two different communities with different goals in mind.

When I sit back and think about where gangs might be in BA:RP after the first five or six months after release, I see a lot of what I've seen in The Wire. San Fierro has an abundance of high-rise-esque apartment complexes which would be great for illegal roleplay. Instead of holding down a block, I foresee gangs holding down apartment complexes and using them as a hub for criminal activity, with the surrounding areas. But everything as of right now is a prediction, we're going to let the server take it's course and do our best to flow with it, the players are what makes the server, not the other way around. We're simply a platform for everyone's ideas. You can't sit here and criticize people for wanting to revert back to the comfortable, relateable neighborhoods like they role-played in at Los Santos because they've more than likely never role-played in San Fierro. Give them time to come in game and adapt/adjust and then come at them with critiques. San Fierro is a new environment and it will take time for players to adjust to that.

34 minutes ago, Turtleneck said:

San Fierro is a perception of reality, not reality itself. It is crucial we understand this to avoid confusions like this.

25 minutes ago, Conspiracy said:

Y'all take the whole real life ordeal a little too seriously. Let it be dealt with in-game. No worthwhile server is gonna restrict where factions can roleplay anyway.

Servers usually don't have to monitor where factions settle because people generally know what areas they should go to (and most servers are based in LS/most people are familiar with LS, which has many areas for all kinds of different roleplay). This is a special case because many people come from LS-RP and they think they can pull off the same factions they would've done on that other server (quite literally copy pasting the same Crips and Bloods factions you'd see there, etc). SF is very different and doesn't offer as many areas for black/Hispanic roleplay and those people not familiar with SF just picked OF thinking it'll work just fine. I say no. The average player didn't leave LS for BA-RP only to encounter the same copy pasted factions in San Fierro.

23 minutes ago, tw1ster said:

This server is not going to be a carbon-copy of San Francisco. It was never intended to be, that's a goal which is unattainable and frankly not desirable. Demographically speaking, you can not compare this video game to real life, point blank period. We're a small community of a few thousand, currently. When the server launches, we're realistically going to be looking at a small community of a few hundred. You guys are setting yourself up for disappointment if you think we can actively mirror any type of real life demographic. People are bringing up real-life statistics to a city which has almost 1,000,000 people in it, we have to cater to a player-base of a few hundred people. There is no way we're going to match any statistical demographic you find. I think it's important to remember that we're playing a video game and the main goal for everyone involved is to have fun and make memories along the way. It would be absurd for us to try and play sheep-dog and dissuade criminals from opening factions wherever they please. 

 

I'll say it one more time for people in the back. We are not going to base anything on this server off of real-life demographics. If you're passionate enough to spark a discussion on this topic then you should hopefully also be smart enough to understand it will be impossible for us to match any real life demographic considering that people can change a character in the snap of a finger and the average life span is weeks to months. Also, America has a rich history which directly correlates to demographics. We're starting from scratch with absolutely no history and 1/3rd of the tools modern-day America has to make that region the demographic it is. This server is a blank canvas and will be painted the way players choose.

 

Another important note, the factions you see all sprawled around Ocean Flats are solely faction threads. It's very easy to make a faction thread and wait for a server to open, but when this server does open, I can almost guarantee you will see three or four factions actually in game, role-playing around the area. As a caveat to that, we're not racially designating neighborhoods. The organic growth of this server is contingent on the players and where they decide to create factions and roleplay, we will not interfere with that process. To the people saying you hope this place won't become LS:RP v2, don't act like you didn't enjoy your time on LS:RP and that everything they did was wrong. I know I had a lot of fun when I played there and they did a lot of things right, which you seem to forget. I know for a fact at least one of you "hoping" this doesn't become LS:RP v2 still post on their forums and are involved in their community. You need to let go of whatever grudge you have with LS:RP and move on, we're not doing anything with the intent to replicate LS:RP or anything to be a polar opposite of LS:RP. We are two different communities with different goals in mind.

 

When I sit back and think about where gangs might be in BA:RP after the first five or six months after release, I see a lot of what I've seen in The Wire. San Fierro has an abundance of high-rise-esque apartment complexes which would be great for illegal roleplay. Instead of holding down a block, I foresee gangs holding down apartment complexes and using them as a hub for criminal activity, with the surrounding areas. But everything as of right now is a prediction, we're going to let the server take it's course and do our best to flow with it, the players are what makes the server, not the other way around. We're simply a platform for everyone's ideas. You can't sit here and criticize people for wanting to revert back to the comfortable, relateable neighborhoods like they role-played in at Los Santos because they've more than likely never role-played in San Fierro. Give them time to come in game and adapt/adjust and then come at them with critiques. San Fierro is a new environment and it will take time for players to adjust to that.

Nobody's saying we must have the same demographics as real-life SF but we have to respect the areas. Nobody in their right mind would create a white upper class faction in Ganton and RPing having always being there (and if people did, the people originally RPing there would be pissed/it would be very disruptive), we're just saying people should adapt depending on where they settle. There are places that just can't be changed. Chinatown will remain Chinatown and Ocean Flats should be no exception, being primarily a location for a middle class of Whites and Asians. Seeing 10 Crip/Blood/Norteno factions all fighting for such a small area that is Ocean Flats is ludicrous. The first two don't even exist in San Francisco, and Norteno sets belong in Mission District. Even if most of those factions are going to close down after server launches, the mapping you made and the creation of those very factions is going to doom OF to become the next Idlewood/East LS.

About what you said about LS-RP v2, we don't want BA-RP to become LS V2 because San Fierro & Bay Area aren't Los Santos. We're expecting something new and different. We're not expecting to move to another city to see the same copypasted Crip/Blood threads that were in LS. San Fierro has potential to offer something else and that's all we advocate. I strongly believe the people who want to copy the same type of factions from LS-RP onto San Fierro should either not be here or adapt.

I have nothing against LSRP, to be honest i had some of my greatest samp times there. When i said ''LSRP 2k18'' i was referring to the low role-play standards people have now compared to what they had in 2015 f.e. Also i haven't been active on their forums for a year. 

I do hope Tw1ster is right and that people will finally come to realize the differences between San Fierro and Los Santos and adapt, my main concern is that instead of adapting people will just lower the role-play standards of the server and transform OF and other areas into Idlewood.

Just now, Neaksy said:

Nobody's saying we must have the same demographics as real-life SF but we have to respect the areas. Nobody in their right mind would create a white upper class faction in Ganton and having RPing always being there, we're just saying people should adapt depending on where they settle. There are places that just can't be changed. Chinatown will remain Chinatown and Ocean Flats should be no exception, being primarily a location for a middle class of Whites and Asians. Seeing 10 Crip/Blood/Norteno factions all fighting for such a small area that is Ocean Flats is ludicrous. The first two don't even exist in San Francisco, and Norteno sets belong in Mission District. Even if most of those factions are going to close down after server launches, the mapping you made and the creation of those very factions is going to doom OF to become the next Idlewood/East LS.

 

About what you said about LS-RP v2, we don't want BA-RP to become LS V2 because San Fierro & Bay Area aren't Los Santos. We're expecting something new and different. We're not expecting to move to another city to see the same copypasted Crip/Blood threads that were in LS. San Fierro has potential to offer something else and that's all we advocate. I strongly believe the people who want to copy the same type of factions from LS-RP onto San Fierro should either not be here or adapt.

The entire thesis of your argument is linked directly to the demographic in San Francisco though. If San Fierro and Los Santos are different, why are you using Ganton as a prime example in your defense? You discredit your entire argument with that. I completely agree with the statement that people should adapt depending on where they settle, but the issue here is, no one has settled anywhere as of yet, the server is still being developed. Chinatown will remain Chinatown because of the specific default mapping which gives it identifiers, Ocean Flats has zero identifiers of what type of community inhabits it. You only see those ten factions on the forums, they're not in game and won't be in game, at least at that capacity. This doesn't even include the work FM is impending on setting up claimed territories. Once a gang claims a section, that's that. There won't be other gangs role-playing there.

The mapping in Ocean Flats was reverted. We realized that slapping Los Santos into Ocean Flats was not the direction to go, thanks to community feedback. The only mapping we've done is remove the gay pride flages (aside from the one in front of the Gaydar club) and re-textured the pink houses to an off-white. We did not change the atmosphere at all aside from the aforementioned changes. These "same copypasted Crip/Blood threads" you see also have a set in more than one city, it makes perfect sense to see them here considering the fact that most gangs aren't centralized in one city, there are sub-sets all across America. I understand your concern but I think you're jumping to conclusions too early on. Give people a chance.

2 hours ago, Crawler said:

 

yeah but having 10 illegal black factions in ocean flats is kinda too much y' kno?

Actually there are 3-5 black Factions, 2 or 3 Hispanic Gangs and 1 white faction in OF, facts.

42 minutes ago, tw1ster said:

 

The entire thesis of your argument is linked directly to the demographic in San Francisco though. If San Fierro and Los Santos are different, why are you using Ganton as a prime example in your defense? You discredit your entire argument with that. I completely agree with the statement that people should adapt depending on where they settle, but the issue here is, no one has settled anywhere as of yet, the server is still being developed. Chinatown will remain Chinatown because of the specific default mapping which gives it identifiers, Ocean Flats has zero identifiers of what type of community inhabits it. You only see those ten factions on the forums, they're not in game and won't be in game, at least at that capacity. This doesn't even include the work FM is impending on setting up claimed territories. Once a gang claims a section, that's that. There won't be other gangs role-playing there.

 

The mapping in Ocean Flats was reverted. We realized that slapping Los Santos into Ocean Flats was not the direction to go, thanks to community feedback. The only mapping we've done is remove the gay pride flages (aside from the one in front of the Gaydar club) and re-textured the pink houses to an off-white. We did not change the atmosphere at all aside from the aforementioned changes. These "same copypasted Crip/Blood threads" you see also have a set in more than one city, it makes perfect sense to see them here considering the fact that most gangs aren't centralized in one city, there are sub-sets all across America. I understand your concern but I think you're jumping to conclusions too early on. Give people a chance.

I was using Ganton as an example that should ring a bell to most people to make a point that areas are predisposed for certain types of roleplay. It doesn't discredit my argument. Ocean Flats does have identifiers. It's sandwiched between, right next to it in the south, an upper class country club with a massive golf course, and in the north the City Hall, the district is right next to the ocean for tourists and beach-goers, and has a Cathedral with a unique architecture. The houses are clearly middle-class homes, with no presence of tags or crumbling infrastructure, the vegetation all around the area (whether in people's properties or around the district) is maintained.

If the server takes place in San Fierro but still means none of the elements that make the city SF are taken into account, what's the point? Just move back to LS in that case, there's no point moving to a city if nobody's making the effort to adapt to a different city. Removing textures from pink houses to white is a silly change, and if the atmosphere isn't supposed to change, I don't see the point of it either. I want to hope that we'll just have to see but I'm not very optimistic, I predict Ocean Flats will indeed become a s-hole and that is going to have negative effects on civilian roleplay expanding there (including Queens and Hashbury).

A topic created out of boredom. Let the lads play wherever they want.

One of the big things about the Bay Area is that the street gangs typically don't pledge allegiance to Crips/Bloods at all. It'd be nice to see people make fictional DTOs and localized street gangs based on the high rises. I think a lot of people are just sticking to things they know, though, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. 

And like other people have already pointed out, the hype inevitably will die down. I guarantee at least three quarters of the factions claiming Ocean Flats will either A. move because they can't take the heat or B. shut down. 

If their roleplay doesn't effect you, why should you care? Setting an arbitrary standard for them just ruins their day, not yours. There's still plenty of upper class areas. Bayside is a great example of an upperclass area nobody has touched at all yet.

I hope genuinely that people branch out, I can see that line of thinking. But it is almost a certainty that people will want to branch out given time.

San Andreas takes place in the early 90s. It's been about 30 years since then. What's so hard to believe that a city's neighborhoods shifted? The old neighborhoods can gentrify, the new neighborhoods can become ghettos. Detroit in 1940 was insanely different compared to Detroit in 1970. San Fierro is fictional, an analogue, and we need to afford to make compromises for the sake of RP.

19 hours ago, FroxZ said:

Actually there are 3-5 black Factions, 2 or 3 Hispanic Gangs and 1 white faction in OF, facts.

u r wrong, facts

22 hours ago, Neaksy said:

 

"a few"

 

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/113-fight-for-freedom/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/390-ocean-flats-norteños-xiv/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/417-ocean-blocc-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/520-rollin-30s-original-harlem-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/647-north-highland-gangster-crips/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1198-haskell-street-locos-13/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1338-nateville-black-p-stones/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1801-fruit-town-brims/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/1742-w-latin-kings/

https://forum.bayarearoleplay.com/topic/2002-cold-cut-bloods/

 

No point having a server in San Fierro if everybody's going to copy LA gangs, create Crips and Bloods let alone in a neighborhood that isn't fit for them. If suddenly Ganton was flooded with upper class white factions in their supercars RPing having lived there all along I'm sure many of the gangs originally roleplaying there would be pissed

 

If you're going to import the factions you wanted to make on LS-RP this isn't the server, Ocean Flats is right next to a beach, the City Hall, an upper class country club and includes a cathedral with unique architecture, none of this would make sense for OF to become a ghetto

And to address one last thing -- the concern some people have regarding where factions are gonna roleplay in -- we understand and agree with you. Don't worry, the staff will take all necessary measures to ensure that every area in San Fierro is well-populated. In fact, I already made a couple of suggestions regarding this very subject to Property Management, here's one of them:

Quote

4. San Fierro is the smallest and most urbanized city in San Andreas. Meaning, there is a serious lack of housing. There are some neighborhoods like Ocean Flats that offer our players normal houses, like the ones they’re used to seeing in cities like LS, but that’s about it, those areas aren't a lot, and they for sure aren't diverse. We can’t stuff all of our playerbase in just 2-3 neighborhoods, so we’ll have to populate the rest of San Fierro as well. Those big buildings? The perfect place for apartment complexes, we should put at least one in each area. This calls for a lot of organization – PM would have to draft up all of the necessities/applications that players will have to fill out in order to get ahold of a complex. FM will likely have to take part in this task since a lot of factions need complexes. Garages are an option too.

On 2/7/2018 at 11:41 AM, Crawler said:

 

u r wrong, facts

 

 

 

Ugh no.

Still similar to my idea.

There are around 9-10 Factions.

There are 10 links which you are showcasing.