Prison Discussion

Started by Zenophobia,

Zenophobia (Member) ·

Hello everyone!

 

I'm making this thread to be used as an open discussion about prison.  Feel free to post any and all suggestions below.

 

What I would like to see:

  • Certain restrictions to the weapons that COs can use.  For example, no SMGs, no fully automatic weapons, and no rubber bullet firing pistols.  COs who're walking the yard/block should only carry pepper spray and a baton.  I realize that this might cause issues with people breaking rules and no way for COs to stop them, but I'd fix that by making rules against fucking around in prison more strictly enforced.
  • Intercom system to give prison wide announcements.
  • Mainline cell block.  A script like LSRP would work for this.  You're assigned a random cell upon logging in and then you can request a permanent cell if you're roleplaying for an extended period of time.
  • Security Housing Unit for people misbehaving in character and for prison roleplayers to be indefinitely isolated, provided they request it OOC or they earn it IC.  This could be an entire conversation on it's own.
  • Some kind of commissary system so inmates can buy stamps/food/clothing etc.  No cigarettes please.
  • I would like to see an easier way for prison factions to receive knives.  Maybe working something out with administration.
  • A basic yard.  I'll cover this a more a little later on.
  • A whole bunch of suggestions for the DOC that could probably be given when a discussion about opening the DOC happens.
  • OOC rules regarding behavior, similar to the way they are on LSRP if I'm honest with you.  The requirement for fighting and rioting is really a must have, otherwise people will fight literally all the time.

 

YARD:

The yard doesn't need to be huge, but it should have a few things.

  • Workout bars.  Low to the ground for push ups, higher up for dips, even higher for pull ups.
  • Tables and benches to sit at in various locations.
  • Preferably a tower or something for COs to use a sniper rifle in.

 

There should be kind of an even spacing of workout equipment and benches, in my opinion.  It'd let prison factions claim various spots on the yard like they do in real life.

 

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but given enough time I could think of a whole lot more.

Bospy (Premium Member) ·

NOTE: THIS IS A COMPILATION OF SUGGESTIONS. SOME OF IT WILL BE REPEATED OR MUDDLED, IT WAS NOT ALL WRITTEN AT THE SAME TIME.

 

So, if we have day-long sentences, with a maximum of 3 or 4 days, we can have the hours decrease offline. If we also use the "halving" system, it encourages people to roleplay to shorten the general overall sentence. We could also incorporate work scripts to decrease the sentence as well - if you're doing a script job in the prison, such as delivering mail, working in the canteen, working in the workshop, and earning commissary, you earn points to an early release. The most lucrative way to earn money or get out of prison is not by waiting until your time is up, but by engaging in roleplay and becoming enveloped in the prison atmosphere.

 

In addition to that, you make a parole system that paroles literally anyone so long as they haven't violated their parole in the past. If they've already served 50% of their time (or worked towards it), they can parole. The parole officers keep in touch for twice the time the prison sentence as initially meant to be. So if you were sentenced for 4 days, parole keeps in touch for 8. This way, there's an active parole component to the DOC and it encourages people to apply to the DOC. DOC is responsible entirely for apprehending parolees, up to and including breaching their house. Make them full-time peace officers with state authority but only for parolees on the outside and other criminals they witness. They won't patrol, but they will keep in touch with parolees when parolees are online. Make the parole system as inundated and full-up as possible so they have shit to do. This keeps people interested in DOC. Offer exterior work for DOC that is meaningful, community services, exterior operations, exterior investigations into gangs that supply prison gangs, etc. The intention behind the expanded opportunities here is to attract good roleplayers and maintain very high standards of roleplay within the department - in this way, standards do not need to lower in order to find people willing to adopt to a boring system. One of the biggest crippling problems about DOC on LSRP was that the LEO factions had much more to offer - this meant good roleplayers were not enticed to apply, and therefore it often meant that bad roleplayers would fill the ranks of the faction. With good roleplayers filling the ranks, they will provide interesting roleplay to the prisoners. The most ideal DOC does not focus on punishing roleplayers in the prison, but promoting roleplay and creating roleplay. This doesn’t mean working with prison roleplayers on an IC basis, but turning a blind eye so that interesting prison roleplay can happen. The investigatory section in the prison, for example, should not focus on shutting down prison gangs because prison gangs give them a job to do. They can focus on crippling their outside assets by IC means, but by no means should they be motivated on an OOC basis to stack a casefile up so they can enact a mass-isolation. Instead, they should be motivated to provide atmosphere to the prison. It shouldn’t be oppressive, but it shouldn’t be too lenient. It should be enough to let the inmates have the idea that they run the prison, to an extent like real life.

 

So basically, we can have day-long sentences but the player can make an active effort to work down their sentence by hours or 30 minutes by doing script-based work in addition to parole. Let's say you work down half the sentence - the amount of work you do is incrementally decreased due to the fact you're nearing the end of your sentence, so instead of 30 it's 15 minutes or 5 minutes each cycle of work. This incentivizes roleplay by regular players who are just passing through. People interested in the prison gang aspect could prey on those who do these regularly, offering an interesting aspect to the roleplay dynamic.

This shouldn't be difficult to script. And it'll provide a very interesting aspect for people joining DOC. Rather than DOC being the sub-par roleplayer faction, decent roleplayers will be attracted by the offers it presents. Directly mirror it to the real life CDCR. Let them have fugitive apprehension teams, work closely with other departments, and share information. People will definitely be attracted to that idea and want to do character development around that central theme. I’m certain prison roleplayers would enjoy having a DOC that actually fosters and promotes their brand of roleplay, too.

I think implementing a DOC faction should take second priority in terms of legal factions. As soon as the server launches and SFPD and SFFD are off the ground, start work on a SADCR faction.

 

One thing I’d also like to see in a DOC faction is room for inmates to have a say - this doesn’t mean give them access to confidential information, but to actually take their opinions into account with policy change that directly affects them. This means sanctioning a very active prisoner forum on a DOC forum. It’s a two-way road of roleplay - if one party isn’t willing to do RP, then the other party will suffer. The best means of having engaging roleplay in a prison environment is working out and compromising on issues.

.

In real life the CDCR chases suspects and arrests high-risk warrant suspects. To have a successful DOC you will need a very active outside component or nobody will be interested, or only people who have been rejected from SFPD will be interested. By maintaining a high standard and allowing people to do interesting and enticing roleplay, good roleplay will be a cornerstone of the faction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Department_of_Corrections_and_Rehabilitation#Fugitive_Apprehension_Team

I'd like to also suggest that if the prison does become a thing on the server, we don't use the cliche military base. Leave that a military base, develop a prison elsewhere - make it with a brand new exterior and interior. If it HAS to be the military base, don't recycle old shit. That'd be great.

 

I'd personally like to see probation/parole offered multiple times and previous sentences not taken into account aside for sexual/very violent offenders or rulebreakers who have /q'd on the parole officers in the past. Probation/parole shouldn't be offered if someone has violated a certain amount of times, and whichever agency handles parole/probation should be permitted to set their own regulations for what parolees need to do. I want to see an inundated system that sees huge recidivism rates and offers interesting roleplay - there need to be an active parole unit for whichever agency handles it that meets with parolees. In addition, for people who request prison time, they should be able to "parole" out of the sentence voluntarily at request. In addition, whichever agency handles parolees should be able to apprehend them on their own with their own fugitive teams if they violate.

Basically, inundate the system with parolees as much as possible - the terms for this, though, would also tie into my longer prison sentences suggestion. Day-long sentences that pass over time out of the game, but people should be permitted to release early/parole and time should go by quicker when they're in-game. In this way, every aspect of the correctional system is focused on roleplay - people won't namechange if they can parole out, for instance, and this promotes continuity.

Whatever agency handles corrections should also be full-time peace officers and be permitted to arrest people on their own. This doesn’t mean the DOC should have their own TAC channels, if anything it means they’ll use outside resources more often - you could stipulate regulations to include them only at the back of convoys or let other agencies do most of the ground work, but the DOC should be permitted to pursue parolees. In addition, if a prison investigation leads investigators within the prison to determine an outside source is selling contraband, the prison investigators should contact whichever department has primary jurisdiction and commence joint casefiles on investigating the situation.

 

I could provide countless anecdotes and horror stories about a DOC that isn’t fostered correctly or has too many bad roleplayers in it. Frankly, correctional roleplay isn’t that complicated if you look at it from a pragmatic point of view - the most effective means of ensuring an active, thriving system is by opening up the dialogue from within the faction to include anyone within the prison. Prisoners need to be able to provide input the same as DOC staff. A large decision shouldn’t be made without their consultation if it directly affects the atmosphere they roleplay in. The DOC should not view prisoners disagreeing with their decisions as a slight or brush it off because they don’t “know” about correctional RP - some members of prison gangs are more experienced with prisons than any member of a correctional agency. It is as big of a labor to maintain an active prison gang as it is to maintain an active correctional department, and therefore it is counterproductive almost entirely to establish a clear border between the DOC and prison roleplayers. It is incredibly common for people in legal factions to believe that they are any different from illegal roleplayers. This fact should be established as false in every legal faction - they are on the same footing as everyone else, and they should work with people in their place of roleplay to ensure a quality atmosphere. If this is not established, then the server is simply a glorified cops and robbers server where the criminals focus on getting away and the cops focus on catching the criminal. There is no substance to that, and it is frankly not enjoyable. Roleplay isn’t a singleplayer game.

 

The intention here is to make the DOC on equal footing in terms of roleplay and rule standards as the SFPD with a more central focus on the prison and felons in the state, but with unique enough roleplay to attract alternative characters.

Extendo (Premium Member) ·

One of the first things we need to establish are the prison sentences. Is it gonna be days or hours?

.Nate (Member) ·
10 minutes ago, Extendo said:

One of the first things we need to establish are the prison sentences. Is it gonna be days or hours?

 

I'd be for DAYS definitely. Going to make people think about what they do, not randomly steal a vehicle just to avoid walking for 5 min or calling a taxi.

I've been playing on a MTA server where you would get two IRL days of prison only for evading the police/stealing a car.

The crime rate wouldn't be that high, I guess the chance that someone shoots you just for getting tehir ass beaten for example would be definitely lower.

People would reconsider a lot of things if they risk having to sit in prison for a long time.

Pop (Member) ·
10 minutes ago, Extendo said:

One of the first things we need to establish are the prison sentences. Is it gonna be days or hours?

Hopefully days to a couple of weeks.

Charlie Brown (Member) ·

CAMERAS

 

Complete, 100%, camera coverage of every nook and cranny of prison made it impossible to get away with any violence, not even if you meticulously planned it out. What's the point of planning a murder or assault if 100% of the time you get caught? Where's the incentive for the DOC to do real investigative RP if they can just instantly know who did it by asking control? It'd be better overall if there were some blindspots that made sense. That way, an experienced prisoner can get away with a murder if he tries to, but the DOC can still catch them if they want by asking around, trying to find informants, evidence, etc.

 

WEAPONS

 

How weapons were done was very confusing. There was never a real, official, system as far as I can remember. For a while, you had "shank permission" which was basically just saying that you were allowed to RP a weapon, but was incredibly confusing for admins, officers, and victims. Sometimes RP was stopped in order to confirm that you had "shank permission". Then, admins took it a step further and would give a knife along with permission. This was arguably worse because you had to wait around for a higher-level admin to come online, not be busy, and review and approve your request. Acceptance wasn't based on you, but them. Each admin had their own acceptable reasons and methods for making weapons, and some often conflicted and contradicted others; an idea you used and got approved yesterday was shot down the next day by a different admin. Towards the end, I believe admins gave knives to faction leaders to distribute as they see fit. I never liked that, because it replaced the previous system entirely, making it nearly impossible for regular inmates, lifers, and most importantly, emerging prison gangs to get weapons.  The point I'm getting to with my history lesson is this: in my 4 or so years RPing in prison, I have never seen a solid, simple, official, easy to understand and use system for getting weapons in prison. Wouldn't it be great to get it right from the get-go?

 

My proposal is to have a scripted system. Something that works similar to the boxing trainer job. You apply for it, get approved by the staff based on approval guidelines and not individual whims, and lose when you namechange, and are unable to make knives outside of prison.

 

Approval should be based on the seniority of the prisoner. Have a minimum time served to even apply. Consider things like if he's in a prison gang or serving a life sentence too.

 

Ideally, it would work like this:

 

Johnny Wood goes to the commissary and buys a few inconspicuous items, (toothbrushes, razors, etc), goes to his cell, types a command that begins a 5 minute timer, puts him in an animation, and gives him a knife (incomplete) item -- if the inventory system is implemented, this would go well with that -- but wait! Johnny Wood hears a pair of boots coming towards his cell. He hurriedly stops what he's doing with another command, and sits on his bunk. A CO peeks his head in and senses something suspicious, frisks Johnny, recovers the knife (incomplete), and charges him with manufacturing a weapon. But in an alternate reality, Johnny tells the CO to fuck off and suck his dick, and the CO walks away in shame. Johnny then resumes what he was doing with another command and continues right where he was left off until it's finished. Then, he's free to do whatever he wants with his knife; sell it, use it on that nosey cop, give it to someone to use on another inmate.

 

I understand if the entire suggestion can't be added. A bare bones version similar to this would be fine with me. Whatever ends up being added will be miles better than what we're used to.

 

If anybody sees any potential for abuse, let me know and I'll work on finding a solution.

 

I took the liberty of organizing Bospy's copypasta wall of text into neat bullet points:

 

PAROLE AND OUTSIDE RP:

 

  • A scripted parole system that allows inmates to parole out of prison after half their time, but their parole would be double their remaining time.
  • Parole officers with the same resources other LEO factions have to check parolees.
  • Parole officers would not be allowed to do police work (patrolling, etc). The only exception is if they witness a crime.
  • Fugitive apprehension team that apprehends bad parolees and escapees, as well as executing high risk warrants (similiar to the real-life CDCR) with assistance of other LEO factions.
  • In general, more outside of prison RP for the DOC to peak interest in more players.
  • The DOC should grant parole to anybody as long as they don't have a recent history of violating parole or are in for murder, rape, etc. That would produce a large amount of parolees and work to keep the outside side of the DOC active and entertained.

 

DOC FACTION ATTITUDE AND QUALITY:

 

  • An attitude towards gangs that's less about shutting them down and hurting roleplay, but attacking operations like drug smuggling and dealing inside of prison.
  • An attitude towards prison RP that's less about control and more about encouraging a flourishing prison environment.
  • A forum, similar to this, where DOC and prison roleplayers can share ideas and criticisms.

My note: NOT like the one on the DOC forums. It was almost completely for show, and heavily censored by the DOC; threads shut down prematurely and criticisms got you removed. It was a complete charade. We were playing on their field, and they knew it and we knew it. We need a proper place for OOC discussion where we meet as equals. Preferably a group on these forums refereed by staff rather than one of us.

  • Features to match other LEO factions to attract good roleplayers, rather than the DOC being the stepchild of LEO factions.
  • Allow more exterior RP for the DOC (community service, investigative work into outside chapters of prison gangs/smuggling ops, checking on parolees.)

 

PRISON TIME:

 

  • Can be worked off in increments by doing script-based jobs. (specific jobs yet to be decided)
  • Days system, rather than hours. This allows for enough time to develop a character in prison, as well as allow enough time for a proper parole RP. It also makes it possible to AFK your sentence; whether you either log in and RP or don't doesn't matter, you're in for x amount of days, so people who don't wanna RP won't log in and bother those who do.

 

Still read his post if you can. It's long because it's detailed and it brings up so many great points.

 

Zenophobia (Member) ·

I'd prefer days served to hours, I think, as long as time was allowed to be served while offline.  It's something often talked about, but I think that doing it that way would prevent people from fucking around as much as they would otherwise.

 

@Charlie Brown I agree with 100% of what you said, especially about cameras.  100% CCTV coverage is a real detriment to prison roleplay.  I'd suggest scripting in cameras in certain high traffic areas and setting up OOC guidelines about where the cameras cover.

Pelayo (Premium Member) ·

It might sound far fetched, but I'd said don't make prison the instant go to. You have the choice to go or not go when being arrested. This allows people who want to RP prison and allow people who don't want to RP prison to get back to RPing.

Zenophobia (Member) ·

I get where you're coming from, but in the end that makes it so that there are literally no consequences for your character's actions.  You can do whatever you want, and still be back on the street.  Killed a cop, got caught, no prison.  Got pinched selling three kilos of coke?  No prison.  I think time running down while you're offline would be the ideal middle ground so people who don't want to roleplay in prison would just be able to not log in for however long they're in for.  Instead they could play an alternate character for a while, or they could play another game, or something else.

 

Prison, in my opinion, should be absolutely mandatory if you're caught, though.

kane (Member) ·
1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

Certain restrictions to the weapons that COs can use.  For example, no SMGs, no fully automatic weapons, and no rubber bullet firing pistols.  COs who're walking the yard/block should only carry pepper spray and a baton.  I realize that this might cause issues with people breaking rules and no way for COs to stop them, but I'd fix that by making rules against fucking around in prison more strictly enforced.

 

This will be determined by management. 

 

1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

Intercom system to give prison wide announcements.

 

Already a feature. Players in the prison perimeter (outside, which includes the yard) and inside the interior can see intercom messages.

 

1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

Mainline cell block.  A script like LSRP would work for this.  You're assigned a random cell upon logging in and then you can request a permanent cell if you're roleplaying for an extended period of time.

 

Cell assignments is a feature. Permanent cells isn't plausible at the time nor do I personally believe it's necessary. 

 

1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

Security Housing Unit for people misbehaving in character and for prison roleplayers to be indefinitely isolated, provided they request it OOC or they earn it IC.  This could be an entire conversation on it's own.

 

The prison mapping is not complete so there's room for new additions like this. There are plans to expand once the server goes life. We currently only have what is needed.

 

1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

Some kind of commissary system so inmates can buy stamps/food/clothing etc.  No cigarettes please.

 

This is something I would like as well and will most likely try and get it implemented sometime soon.

 

1 hour ago, Zenophobia said:

A basic yard.  I'll cover this a more a little later on.

 

Like I showed the prison preview video, we have a yard and it's fully equipped to suit your role play. 

Bospy (Premium Member) ·

My big block of text may dissuade people from reading it, but I encourage anyone with a passing interest in prison to sit down and attempt to. It's a compilation of suggestions that I've come up with after consulting with legal and illegal roleplayers in the past, and I feel, frankly, the most effective means of running a prison faction. By dedicating that faction to ensuring both parties roleplaying in the prison system can work together mutually, we can have a great atmosphere. The worst part of prison on LSRP was the faction running it.

Zenophobia (Member) ·
6 minutes ago, kane said:

Cell assignments is a feature. Permanent cells isn't plausible at the time nor do I personally believe it's necessary. 

 

Personally, I think it is necessary eventually.  Roleplaying with cell mates is one of the most enjoyable aspects of prison roleplay, IMHO.  To really do that effectively, you need to be able to be assigned somewhere permanently.  I don't necessarily think that it's needed immediately, but at some point it should be added.  Not only that, but having permanent cells is important to prison politics when it comes to lockdowns.  I'm not sure how many blocks there are right now, if it's only one if if there are more, but if you're trying to fly kites with the shotcaller of another race, and he has to relog and is now in another block, what are you supposed to do?

Charlie Brown (Member) ·
11 minutes ago, kane said:

Cell assignments is a feature. Permanent cells isn't plausible at the time nor do I personally believe it's necessary.

 

You don't believe it's necessary at this time or at all? Cause I can tell you from experience, it is for those staying for an extended sentence who want to keep their cell/bunky.

kane (Member) ·
1 minute ago, Charlie Brown said:

 

You don't believe it's necessary at this time or at all?

 

At this time. No doubt we can sort a permanent cell system out for the avid prison role players who're interested in it if it's suggested. Maybe when a second cellblock is mapped as the server progresses. 

Zenophobia (Member) ·

Oh, and yes, like Bospy said somewhere in his block of text:

Somewhere for the DOC and inmates to interact and provide feedback to each other is vital.

Zenophobia (Member) ·
Just now, kane said:

 

At this time. No doubt we can sort a permanent cell system out for the avid prison role players who're interested in it if it's suggested. Maybe when a second cellblock is mapped as the server progresses. 

 

I'm happy to hear that and I totally agree it isn't needed immediately.

nitraM (Member) ·

I believe a good addition to the prison system would be a Prison Break system. The way it could work is be connected to commissary items.

 

My idea for this system would be as follow. Please feel free to add-on to this because it's not a funny thought out idea.

 

Player gets arrested and is arrested for x hours lets say 6 for the example.

After the player roleplays for around 3 of those 6 hours purchasing commissary items the player can initiate a prison break(How? TBD)

 

The risk -

Wanted by the SFPD if you escape. There will be an APB for you until your unserved time is finished.(In this case 3 hours until the APB is gone)

Extended sentence(Half of the unserved sentence added on) So in this example they had 3 hours left they would now have 4.5 if they are caught.

 

Reward-

You escaped prison and didn't have to serve the last few hours.

 

 

Discuss if you like.

Bospy (Premium Member) ·
Just now, nitraM said:

I believe a good addition to the prison system would be a Prison Break system. The way it could work is be connected to commissary items.

 

My idea for this system would be as follow. Please feel free to add-on to this because it's not a funny thought out idea.

 

Player gets arrested and is arrested for x hours lets say 6 for the example.

After the player roleplays for around 3 of those 6 hours purchasing commissary items the player can initiate a prison break(How? TBD)

 

The risk -

Wanted by the SFPD if you escape. There will be an APB for you until your unserved time is finished.(In this case 3 hours until the APB is gone)

Extended sentence(Half of the unserved sentence added on) So in this example they had 3 hours left they would now have 4.5 if they are caught.

 

Reward-

You escaped prison and didn't have to serve the last few hours.

 

 

Discuss if you like.

 

I'm against this suggestion just on the basis of how gamey it is, sounds a little too RPG. Everyone will take this option if they can whereas prison breaks are incredibly rare and well coordinated in real life. I'd say my parole suggestion is a good alternative here.

Zenophobia (Member) ·
1 minute ago, nitraM said:

I believe a good addition to the prison system would be a Prison Break system. The way it could work is be connected to commissary items.

 

My idea for this system would be as follow. Please feel free to add-on to this because it's not a funny thought out idea.

 

Player gets arrested and is arrested for x hours lets say 6 for the example.

After the player roleplays for around 3 of those 6 hours purchasing commissary items the player can initiate a prison break(How? TBD)

 

The risk -

Wanted by the SFPD if you escape. There will be an APB for you until your unserved time is finished.(In this case 3 hours until the APB is gone)

Extended sentence(Half of the unserved sentence added on) So in this example they had 3 hours left they would now have 4.5 if they are caught.

 

Reward-

You escaped prison and didn't have to serve the last few hours.

 

 

Discuss if you like.

It's an interesting idea, but it would have to be really hard.  Like, the hardest thing you can possibly do via the script in this game.  Breaking out of a maximum security prison is really rare because, well, it's maximum security.  It's really, really, really hard to get out of.  Between 2009 and 2013, only one inmate escaped from a max-sec prison in the U.S.

Zenophobia (Member) ·

And yes, Bospy's parole idea is also very good.