what i have to say to all of you suggesting day sentences -
Prison Discussion
Started by Zenophobia,
3 minutes ago, west. said:what i have to say to all of you suggesting day sentences -
Did your friends' 1 lol not suffice?
On 12/20/2017 at 8:33 PM, Bospy said:NOTE: THIS IS A COMPILATION OF SUGGESTIONS. SOME OF IT WILL BE REPEATED OR MUDDLED, IT WAS NOT ALL WRITTEN AT THE SAME TIME.
So, if we have day-long sentences, with a maximum of 3 or 4 days, we can have the hours decrease offline. If we also use the "halving" system, it encourages people to roleplay to shorten the general overall sentence. We could also incorporate work scripts to decrease the sentence as well - if you're doing a script job in the prison, such as delivering mail, working in the canteen, working in the workshop, and earning commissary, you earn points to an early release. The most lucrative way to earn money or get out of prison is not by waiting until your time is up, but by engaging in roleplay and becoming enveloped in the prison atmosphere.
In addition to that, you make a parole system that paroles literally anyone so long as they haven't violated their parole in the past. If they've already served 50% of their time (or worked towards it), they can parole. The parole officers keep in touch for twice the time the prison sentence as initially meant to be. So if you were sentenced for 4 days, parole keeps in touch for 8. This way, there's an active parole component to the DOC and it encourages people to apply to the DOC. DOC is responsible entirely for apprehending parolees, up to and including breaching their house. Make them full-time peace officers with state authority but only for parolees on the outside and other criminals they witness. They won't patrol, but they will keep in touch with parolees when parolees are online. Make the parole system as inundated and full-up as possible so they have shit to do. This keeps people interested in DOC. Offer exterior work for DOC that is meaningful, community services, exterior operations, exterior investigations into gangs that supply prison gangs, etc. The intention behind the expanded opportunities here is to attract good roleplayers and maintain very high standards of roleplay within the department - in this way, standards do not need to lower in order to find people willing to adopt to a boring system. One of the biggest crippling problems about DOC on LSRP was that the LEO factions had much more to offer - this meant good roleplayers were not enticed to apply, and therefore it often meant that bad roleplayers would fill the ranks of the faction. With good roleplayers filling the ranks, they will provide interesting roleplay to the prisoners. The most ideal DOC does not focus on punishing roleplayers in the prison, but promoting roleplay and creating roleplay. This doesn’t mean working with prison roleplayers on an IC basis, but turning a blind eye so that interesting prison roleplay can happen. The investigatory section in the prison, for example, should not focus on shutting down prison gangs because prison gangs give them a job to do. They can focus on crippling their outside assets by IC means, but by no means should they be motivated on an OOC basis to stack a casefile up so they can enact a mass-isolation. Instead, they should be motivated to provide atmosphere to the prison. It shouldn’t be oppressive, but it shouldn’t be too lenient. It should be enough to let the inmates have the idea that they run the prison, to an extent like real life.
So basically, we can have day-long sentences but the player can make an active effort to work down their sentence by hours or 30 minutes by doing script-based work in addition to parole. Let's say you work down half the sentence - the amount of work you do is incrementally decreased due to the fact you're nearing the end of your sentence, so instead of 30 it's 15 minutes or 5 minutes each cycle of work. This incentivizes roleplay by regular players who are just passing through. People interested in the prison gang aspect could prey on those who do these regularly, offering an interesting aspect to the roleplay dynamic.
This shouldn't be difficult to script. And it'll provide a very interesting aspect for people joining DOC. Rather than DOC being the sub-par roleplayer faction, decent roleplayers will be attracted by the offers it presents. Directly mirror it to the real life CDCR. Let them have fugitive apprehension teams, work closely with other departments, and share information. People will definitely be attracted to that idea and want to do character development around that central theme. I’m certain prison roleplayers would enjoy having a DOC that actually fosters and promotes their brand of roleplay, too.
I think implementing a DOC faction should take second priority in terms of legal factions. As soon as the server launches and SFPD and SFFD are off the ground, start work on a SADCR faction.
One thing I’d also like to see in a DOC faction is room for inmates to have a say - this doesn’t mean give them access to confidential information, but to actually take their opinions into account with policy change that directly affects them. This means sanctioning a very active prisoner forum on a DOC forum. It’s a two-way road of roleplay - if one party isn’t willing to do RP, then the other party will suffer. The best means of having engaging roleplay in a prison environment is working out and compromising on issues.
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In real life the CDCR chases suspects and arrests high-risk warrant suspects. To have a successful DOC you will need a very active outside component or nobody will be interested, or only people who have been rejected from SFPD will be interested. By maintaining a high standard and allowing people to do interesting and enticing roleplay, good roleplay will be a cornerstone of the faction.
I'd like to also suggest that if the prison does become a thing on the server, we don't use the cliche military base. Leave that a military base, develop a prison elsewhere - make it with a brand new exterior and interior. If it HAS to be the military base, don't recycle old shit. That'd be great.
I'd personally like to see probation/parole offered multiple times and previous sentences not taken into account aside for sexual/very violent offenders or rulebreakers who have /q'd on the parole officers in the past. Probation/parole shouldn't be offered if someone has violated a certain amount of times, and whichever agency handles parole/probation should be permitted to set their own regulations for what parolees need to do. I want to see an inundated system that sees huge recidivism rates and offers interesting roleplay - there need to be an active parole unit for whichever agency handles it that meets with parolees. In addition, for people who request prison time, they should be able to "parole" out of the sentence voluntarily at request. In addition, whichever agency handles parolees should be able to apprehend them on their own with their own fugitive teams if they violate.
Basically, inundate the system with parolees as much as possible - the terms for this, though, would also tie into my longer prison sentences suggestion. Day-long sentences that pass over time out of the game, but people should be permitted to release early/parole and time should go by quicker when they're in-game. In this way, every aspect of the correctional system is focused on roleplay - people won't namechange if they can parole out, for instance, and this promotes continuity.
Whatever agency handles corrections should also be full-time peace officers and be permitted to arrest people on their own. This doesn’t mean the DOC should have their own TAC channels, if anything it means they’ll use outside resources more often - you could stipulate regulations to include them only at the back of convoys or let other agencies do most of the ground work, but the DOC should be permitted to pursue parolees. In addition, if a prison investigation leads investigators within the prison to determine an outside source is selling contraband, the prison investigators should contact whichever department has primary jurisdiction and commence joint casefiles on investigating the situation.
I could provide countless anecdotes and horror stories about a DOC that isn’t fostered correctly or has too many bad roleplayers in it. Frankly, correctional roleplay isn’t that complicated if you look at it from a pragmatic point of view - the most effective means of ensuring an active, thriving system is by opening up the dialogue from within the faction to include anyone within the prison. Prisoners need to be able to provide input the same as DOC staff. A large decision shouldn’t be made without their consultation if it directly affects the atmosphere they roleplay in. The DOC should not view prisoners disagreeing with their decisions as a slight or brush it off because they don’t “know” about correctional RP - some members of prison gangs are more experienced with prisons than any member of a correctional agency. It is as big of a labor to maintain an active prison gang as it is to maintain an active correctional department, and therefore it is counterproductive almost entirely to establish a clear border between the DOC and prison roleplayers. It is incredibly common for people in legal factions to believe that they are any different from illegal roleplayers. This fact should be established as false in every legal faction - they are on the same footing as everyone else, and they should work with people in their place of roleplay to ensure a quality atmosphere. If this is not established, then the server is simply a glorified cops and robbers server where the criminals focus on getting away and the cops focus on catching the criminal. There is no substance to that, and it is frankly not enjoyable. Roleplay isn’t a singleplayer game.
The intention here is to make the DOC on equal footing in terms of roleplay and rule standards as the SFPD with a more central focus on the prison and felons in the state, but with unique enough roleplay to attract alternative characters.
This post is summarized by Charlie Brown below:
To people who doubt this system is incapable of being scripted or working, I've been assured multiple times that it is capable of being scripted. You will actually end up serving less time in prison with the system I suggested because you have an incentive to get in-game to roleplay to shorten the sentence. With my system, your sentence is reduced by 75% to even 50% when you are in-game actively roleplaying. The caveat to this is that when you have served at least 50% of your sentence the time dilation decreases incrementally. In addition to this, you can do script jobs that decrease the sentence by a fixed rate.
This system encourages prison roleplay and character development. It doesn't restrict it. You'll end up serving less time in prison here than on LSRP, because on LSRP if you had the maximum sentence of 900 minutes you might actually end up logging in only for 2 hours every day - that would take 5 days to serve. A three-day maximum sentence that encourages you to log in-game to do roleplay that decreases that sentence will actually be less time in minutes than 900 minutes. It may SEEM like a long time, but in reality it's absolutely less time you're spending in-game idling and checking back every 5 minutes.
If you've only come in here and read to the "days" point, you should read the entirety of every post to understand we aren't trying to force you to spend days in-game. In fact, the system is >better< than having to involuntarily spend hours in-game doing roleplay that you don't enjoy. Disregarding this suggestion by only reading the first few words is like going into a faction thread reading only the title and posting a comment about the entire faction's history. In a very indepth thread like this, only reading one point will result in you thoroughly misconstruing the message and making yourself look the fool - this system accomodates people who WANT to do very indepth prison roleplay and those who DON'T want to do indepth prison roleplay.
The point of doing days is so you can do time while offline. If you don't want to do the time in game, just log out. Time will still go down. Sure, you could do that with hours, but doing 6 hours in prison for murdering someone is, in my opinion, silly. There's a lot of other shit in this thread to talk about, I don't know why everyone is screaming about the days suggestion.
Gonna make a suggestion about the DOC:
Provided there is a Department of Corrections, I think it would be a good idea to start with only a chunk of the command structure. For example, instead of having a warden, deputy warden, majors, captains, lieutenants, and whatever else, just take a portion of the command and use that. For example, have the highest ranking member of the faction and the OOC leader be a captain IC and just roleplay reporting to a higher up (even though there aren't any). Would need less people to make the faction work this way, I think.
PLEASE READ IF YOU ARE CONCERNED
To naysayers:
Think of it this way. Imagine in the eldritch era of LSRP you'd need to serve a 24 hour prison sentence. That took me one month to serve because there was nothing fun to do. 900 minutes for murder/terrorism? If you logged in for 2 hours a day, you'd need to log in 8 days in a row. That is 11520 minutes that your character is physically stuck in prison. You aren't in-game for a majority of that time. Realistically, spending 15 hours in one day in prison would get you banned or you would be mind-numbingly bored to the point where you'd want to shoot yourself. Why is it absolutely necessary to spend that time in-game? For the roleplay? There's no interesting roleplay. This system proposes the ability to "opt out" and engage in interesting roleplay if you so wish it.
OK, so if on this server we had 3 day sentences for the maximum (aka murder/terrorism), at the maximum that is 4320 minutes. Of which you can spend in-game and actually shorten with this suggestion. You can shorten the sentence just by being in-game, with the minimum shortening size being ideally 50% for any sentence. So that's only 2170 minutes. You can incrementally decrease that time by doing work, let's say by an hour with every time you do the work. So every time you work you subtract 60(in reality 120 if you're doing a 50% sentence). That's still a long time, no? But if you do that five times in one day over a period of 30 minutes, your sentence is now 10 hours shorter in addition to any time you spent in-game roleplaying.
People are automatically assuming that every crime will carry day-long sentences. This is false - only the highest tier of crimes in combination will carry up to a sentence of three days. This means you'd need to run from the police on foot and in a car, run several people over, shoot at police, kill three people, and do any multitude of crazy crimes to rack up that time. Same principle as 900 minutes on LSRP.
What's the benefit to this system?
- You only spend a small amount of time in prison physically. Eluding, for example, could only be three hours. Three-hours out of the game isn't difficult. And if you spent that time in-game, it's an hour and thirty minutes in the prison itself doing roleplay and working script jobs to earn money. You could be out of prison quicker than on LSRP. You don't need to stay in prison for 5 hours doing roleplay you really don't want to do, you have the option to log out.
- There will be incentives to roleplay rather than run around distracting people who are roleplaying. Instead of trolling or provoking prison gangs, you can do script jobs that actually earn you money and shorten your sentence. In this way, you get out much sooner (and richer) than you would on LSRP and prison isn't a slog where you tab back in every 5 minutes to avoid an AFK timer.
I wish for system where players who don't want to rp stay out and players who want to don't have too much restrictions.
Lethal Rounds:
I covered this a little bit earlier, but I thought I would go into it in more depth.
There should never be pistols with lethal rounds. Never. There is no reason inside prison for any CO to be using a pistol with lethal rounds in it. In fact, there's no reason for a CO to be using a pistol at all, but that's for a different post some time.
Anyway, the only time that lethal rounds should be used should be from sniper rifles. Sniper rifles should be in towers and armed with lethal rounds and should only be used as a last resort in a riot in case absolutely nothing else is working to stop it. Regular rifles in towers would work as well if they fired rubber bullets. These can be roleplayed as block guns.
I want to talk about how to deal with prison riots:
I know that this is a topic that could probably and should probably be covered by the DOC or whoever is running the prison. But since this is a suggestion thread and I want to open avenues of discussion, I'm going to post this here.
First of all, riots were dealt with the complete wrong way on LSRP. A riot would break out, and immediately small numbers of COs would rush the scene and start shooting with rubber bullets, hitting with batons, and hitting with pepper spray. It's completely unrealistic, and the rubber bullets being fired from 5 desert eagles made it almost impossible to have anything actually happen during a riot. Take a look at the video below (WARNING: Somewhat graphic. It's a prison riot.)
If you notice in that video, you don't see a single CO trying to get involved and break it up. The proper way to handle a riot should be broken down into steps similar to this:
- Riot erupts.
- Yard is evacuated of COs. At the same time, an order is given over the intercom to stop fighting and prone out.
- Tear gas is fired into the yard.
- Block gun firing rubber bullets is fired from a tower.
- 2nd warning is given to stop rioting.
- If they continue rioting or there are obviously knives being used, final warning is given that states lethal rounds are going to be used.
- Tower uses lethal rounds.
If after all that the riot is still continuing, then imho that's an OOC issue and needs to be dealt with my admins. All reason would state that once the COs start firing lethal rounds, you should stop rioting.
After everyone is proned out, COs come back on the yard and start cuffing inmates. Inmates are brought to their cells according to race (yes, that's actually how it happens in real life) and then segregation/lockdown can occur.
Anybody have any thoughts on this?
Bro u missing the point its a video game.... Yes we all want to have fun by making it realistic but this is too realistic days for a video game murder? I think df not this will drive people away once they get that sentence they just gonna /q
15 minutes ago, Dopey said:Bro u missing the point its a video game.... Yes we all want to have fun by making it realistic but this is too realistic days for a video game murder? I think df not this will drive people away once they get that sentence they just gonna /q
So people are supposed to expect being able to get out of prison after a few hours for committing murder IC? This is a roleplay server, not just any videogame, if they think they can kill someone without getting a lengthy IC sentence, I say they're in the wrong server
As for offering parole to almost anybody and reducing sentences for good standing inmates I agree, SF being more liberal this would make sense
2 minutes ago, Neaksy said:
So people are supposed to expect being able to get out of prison after a few hours for committing murder IC? This is a roleplay server, not just any videogame, if they think they can kill someone without getting a lengthy IC sentence, I say they're in the wrong server
As for offering parole to almost anybody and reducing sentences for good standing inmates I agree, SF being more liberal this would make sense
Yes, they are supposed to. At the end of the day you're there to roleplay for the fun of it and therefore a long sentence shouldn't be obligatory. You don't necessarely need to be in prison for a long time to RP being there for a long time. Those devoted to prison RP could just ask an admin for a longer a sentence and be done with it.
As for the parole part, it could work like that though I think there should be a lot of restrictions and consequences for it.
The point of days is so your time goes down while you are offline.
6 hours ago, Dopey said:Bro u missing the point its a video game.... Yes we all want to have fun by making it realistic but this is too realistic days for a video game murder? I think df not this will drive people away once they get that sentence they just gonna /q
Might as well go play GTA Online or a death match server.
6 hours ago, Gary said:
Yes, they are supposed to. At the end of the day you're there to roleplay for the fun of it and therefore a long sentence shouldn't be obligatory. You don't necessarely need to be in prison for a long time to RP being there for a long time. Those devoted to prison RP could just ask an admin for a longer a sentence and be done with it.
As for the parole part, it could work like that though I think there should be a lot of restrictions and consequences for it.
You may have misunderstood my stance on the prison system. I'm actually for nonobligatory long sentences, prison times should be fairly long but not compulsory on an OOC level (the player shouldn't have to be online for the time to go down). This is especially because at the end of the day we're here to RP for the fun that prison sentences shouldn't be forced to the player
On 12/22/2017 at 4:19 PM, Bospy said:- You only spend a small amount of time in prison physically. Eluding, for example, could only be three hours. Three-hours out of the game isn't difficult. And if you spent that time in-game, it's an hour and thirty minutes in the prison itself doing roleplay and working script jobs to earn money. You could be out of prison quicker than on LSRP. You don't need to stay in prison for 5 hours doing roleplay you really don't want to do, you have the option to log out.
- There will be incentives to roleplay rather than run around distracting people who are roleplaying. Instead of trolling or provoking prison gangs, you can do script jobs that actually earn you money and shorten your sentence. In this way, you get out much sooner (and richer) than you would on LSRP and prison isn't a slog where you tab back in every 5 minutes to avoid an AFK timer.
Linking this again. I urge people to read the thread rather than make assumptions without reading.
On 12/23/2017 at 9:40 AM, Dopey said:Bro u missing the point its a video game.... Yes we all want to have fun by making it realistic but this is too realistic days for a video game murder? I think df not this will drive people away once they get that sentence they just gonna /q
On 12/22/2017 at 11:53 AM, David said:I understand where you're coming from, having more of a realistic prison system that keeps people in prison for a longer duration, but we all have to understand that this is a video game.
On 12/22/2017 at 12:04 PM, west. said:what i have to say to all of you suggesting day sentences -
You know, if you don't want to serve the time, you can always just not be a dumbass and go around shooting people in dumb areas, which would stop if people had to serve days in a prison.
Having to spend days in jail on a RP server just for carrying a gun, or even shooting someone? That's fucking absurd. Maximum sentence time shouldn't be more than 20 hours. We don't want half of the server to be in prison, do we?
I think that staff got this that jailtimes and prison roleplay will be balanced and it'll highly depend on the playerbase.