Prison Discussion

I don't think you and I are gonna agree on this and I don't think anything constructive is gonna come out of it.  I respect your opinion.

It's not likely that I would advocate involuntary life sentences for the time being, as this requires plenty other factor to consider beyond realism or what have you. This has bigger impact and it is something that needs to be discussed by the server's administration point of view, when we get there. If anybody want to volunteer for life sentences, however, they will have the option to do so when we have the system and place for that purpose.

I'm paying attention to the thread and I'll see what we can and can't do. Please continue with the suggestions.

It’s annoying from a cop’s perspective to work on a case and throw a guy in prison just to see him released hours later that same day. It’s also lame to serve week long sentences offline because then you won’t have any motivation to log in. I say make the times a tad less than on lsrp and have the DoC work on a viable parole system that’s based on merit. Past/current charges, behaviour, general prison activity, etc

Seems contradictory.  Less on LSRP would be them getting out a few hours later.

My suggestions:

Wanting to RP in prison:

Have an admin command that puts X player in prison for X amount of time. That way if someone wants to role play in prison or get their sentence extended, an administrator can aid them. Any level admin should be able to do this.

Canteen system:

Have a canteen system where you can buy packaged food or necessities. Those items can be used for trade between inmates. The top priority item should be ramen noodles. There should be a separate inventory for them, so the original inventory won't be a clusterfuck of items. Some of those items (but not all) should be usable and disappear if you use them (like edible food).

General areas/utilities:

Things that are vital (like the intercom). Some of them might already be added or planned, but I'll still throw them out there - payphones, a kitchen/chow hall (place to eat at), visitation area (leave the parking lot open so visitors can park there), tower over the yard, cells to isolate inmates in (ad-seg), showers area, and so on. Other than ad-seg and payphones (both will need script commands), the rest is just mapping. Have an alarm that officers can trigger, that makes sound heard in the entire facility. It can be used whenever an incident happens and it will enhance the whole experience. And a command that locks/opens all the cells at the same time.

Drugs/Shanks:

Have admins help prison factions and players with role play needed around smuggling in drugs or making a shank. If some prison gangster makes a shank to stab a rival, give them a knife weapon. If someone role plays a good method of smuggling in contraband, transfer the drugs to them. This can be in place until a better system is made (I don't know what the drug/weapon script will be like).

Duty Equipment:

Have COs (or whoever runs the facility) have minimal equipment when walking the beat - a spray and a baton. Maybe a tazer at most if some compromise needs to be made. Only have one officer with a non-lethal ammo rifle take position at either the control room or the yard tower. If something of a big scale happens, they can throw gas, if inmates still won't stop, they can shoot non-lethal ammo and start tagging inmates, lethal ammo only if the situation is totally out of control (like a death situation or a riot not stopping). I'm not cutting the inmate population any slack, they'd fight over stupid reasons but it's still very demotivating to be shot down just three seconds into a fight and handcuffed. COs will apprehend the situation either way, why not give the inmates some fun and let them play out the situation out a bit longer while the CO waits for back up (instead of shooting everyone down with a handgun).

Parole:

Give parole really easily. You can justify it by role playing a state with high crime rates and jails/prisons that are overpopulated. Give everyone parole as long as they served half of their sentence and have good behavior (no disciplinary record or isolation). Give them parole even if they were out on parole on a previous sentence but failed it. That way there could be an incentive to behave well and a way for people to go out of prison earlier. You can have an active parole unit and more warrants. You can have certain scripts implemented to help this, like an ankle monitor device (which lasts X amount of time, parolees can be traced by it, or can be removed by the parolee if they want to go on the run) and a release-from-prison command if needed for the officer handling the parole (so the parolee won't spawn in prison).

Work opportunity:

Have something work-related that can be an opportunity for players to stay in-game and doesn't involve crime. Could be something script related in a workshop room that let's you do mundane tasks that get you paid and are equally boring as fishing and trucking. Some players can grind small amounts of cash that way if that's their thing. I was initially against scripted prison jobs, but to each their own. I'm sure some would enjoy it. And it shouldn't be that hard to script. Stand in A part of the room, type five commands in an order, go to B part of the room, type five more commands, get paid a small amount of cash. Could be rewarding and simulate working in prison.

Camera coverage:

Don't add rules that force you to report events because "the camera sees you". It would be a small prison. It's one more unnecessary rule for role players to read and remember. Be a bit lighter on the 100% CCTV coverage thing. Maybe map camera objects and script a CCTV system you can access from the control room. Then the spots the cameras don't capture can be blind spots. Also the positioning and quality of the footage should be taken in consideration. If the camera is high and far, maybe it can just capture someone swinging their arm in "stabbing motions" but not be detailed enough to capture the small shank itself. Or if there's a big riot between 10 inmates who all look the same and are dressed the same, maybe you won't know exactly who did what.

More leeway when it comes to fighting:

Have more leeway when it comes to fighting. People might provoke you to the point where it will be stupid not to fight them (same way it happens outside). Don't isolate both or go by the "who hit first" argument. If the fight was mutual and both of them state it was mutual, just write them up for a minor disciplinary offense. If one is obviously the victim, got beat up bad, didn't fight back, then yeah, isolate the perpetrator. Same during race riots. Don't isolate an entire gang or race group during a riot just because they started it. Just call a lockdown and keep people in their cells for an hour.

MDC system for inmates/events:

I don't know how heavy this is resource-wise. But if one day there is an MDC system for cops, consider having an MDC system for corrections too. So the officers can just add records or information to an inmate's file in-game, without having to tab out and do annoying forum shit. The same can be done for events they want to log in, like someone calling a lockdown or a visitation happening. Just anything that would help them not have to tab out  and go on forums after everything they do.

Less bureaucracy:

If an inmate wants to role play a porter - let them do it. If an inmate wants to role play handing out books or religious material - let them do it. If an inmate wants to role play having some document related to their stay in the prison - let them do it. Don't create systems for every single thing or forum work for inmates. Don't police creativity ("you can't have that"). Just let people have their fun. Should be something that people get behind. Don't have "corruption permissions" for COs if they want to do minor acts of corruption. If a CO wants to smuggle some contraband into prison for one of the gangs - they should be able to do it freely. If a CO wants to open the cells of two rivals "by mistake" so they can fight - they should be able to. Enough pseudo organization methods that only cripple role play, burden people with out of game stuff to do, and slow down progress.

9 hours ago, Extendo said:

One of the first things we need to establish are the prison sentences. Is it gonna be days or hours?

 Definitely days, its more of a simulation then 2 hours representing 2 months. Also those who have 15 hours (life) will enjoy living out 15 days. There's alot more to be rped in that time.

If you make the max sentence six hours, and able to serve time offline, I can promise you that the police force won't be respected at all, and people won't even care that they get arrested.

MORE FREEDOM!

The old DOC had countless policies that prevented creative roleplay in prison. More focused on controlling the type of RP going on rather than encouraging it, as Simeon stated, things like RPing a porter or librarian were flat-out not allowed without approval. Why? It's only detrimental to RP. What harm is going to come from someone breaking the AFKing and beating the crap out of eachother by doing a work assignment? I got scolded once for mopping - really.

Another thing is the facilities. Don't have them on 24/7 lockdown please. It's a total waste to only open them when the DOC feels like it. Inmates should have access to the laundry room and rec room all the time with the canteen and workshop being opened at least daily. This control-freak attitude of, "But we can't supervise them! What if they fight or something?" needs to stop. So what. Get off the dirt hill and make your rounds. Essentially shutting them down for that reason was completely asinine. What was so sad about SACF was it had a lot of good facilities for RP but because of poor policies they never saw their true potential.

8 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

MORE FREEDOM!

 

The old DOC had countless policies that prevented creative roleplay in prison. More focused on controlling the type of RP going on rather than encouraging it, as Simeon stated, things like RPing a porter or librarian were flat-out not allowed without approval. Why? It's only detrimental to RP. What harm is going to come from someone breaking the AFKing and beating the crap out of eachother by doing a work assignment? I got scolded once for mopping - really.

 

Another thing is the facilities. Don't have them on 24/7 lockdown please. It's a total waste to only open them when the DOC feels like it. Inmates should have access to the laundry room and rec room all the time with the canteen and workshop being opened at least daily. This control-freak attitude of, "But we can't supervise them! What if they fight or something?" needs to stop. So what. Get off the dirt hill and make your rounds. Essentially shutting them down for that reason was completely asinine. What was so sad about SACF was it had a lot of good facilities for RP but because of poor policies they never saw their true potential.

This ties in a lot with my suggestion to make sure whatever faction ends up running the prison does it so it creates an environment where roleplay is fostered rather than limited. It'd be sick if the DOC/whoever made a list of "jobs" inmates could choose from and even a roster if inmates were interested in having it listed - maybe even adding script support for intensive stuff like carpentry/etc where you could earn money and ICly get a license to do it.

Hell yeah. Whoever's coding the scripted jobs, make some jobs that can be worked inside of prison as well as outside of prison.

Here's my following suggestion for prison economics:

- When you are sent to prison, all money you have "in-hand" is deducted and deposited into a commissary account.

- Through this commissary account, you can purchase items at a fixed rate, with cigarette packs being the most valuable.
- When you are released from prison, all money left in your commissary is returned IN ADDITION to the worth of your items deducted by a percentage.

So how would this be a prison economy?

With a lack of money to do trading, it would encourage people to use commissary items as bartering chips - instead of paying someone 10 bucks for a dimebag, you give them a bag of apples in exchange. 

EDIT: You should also be able to earn money in your commissary gradually through a "paycheck" system in addition to earning large tiers of money by doing script work.

I'd like to see write ups become a thing rather then immediately putting someone in isolation. A minor offence should get you a write up with the possibility of losing special privileges at the discretion of a high ranking CO. These write ups should be allowed to be disputed at a hearing within 15 days and/or with a written letter. 

I'm all in for the many scripts and systems and other things people like Charlie Brown, Zenophobia, Bospy and Simeon go for. These are incentives that really create and support roleplay in the prison environment while also push the realism buttons.

I'll just say that what I think really damaged prison roleplay in LSRP was the overall attitude exercised in corrections and perhaps on admin level too. Somehow we went from supporting roleplay to basically withholding the means to even create roleplay. Some of the decisions made were really of the most obscure kind. Charlie's post on freedom goes into some of those things. I always felt like there was a really play-to-win-not-to-roleplay kind of thing in DOC, even despite some peoples great efforts to push the existing boundaries.

While we talk about prison and things for the prisoners themselves, I also think the DOC-to-be itself is gonna be about twice as important. They'll be the flip side to this coin. They'll be the ones with the power. And if you let that in the wrong hands and down that slippery slope, it won't matter whether we have more weights, canteen systems or in-depth prison economics.

I believe that DOC and improved Prison RP will do nothing but make the server better, some people would do more crimes to get in jail because they know they're gonna have fun RPing in there, plus there's gonna be more jailtime if the prison RP improves, this will bring nothing but more fun and ROLEPLAY!

And... If a faction like DOC would ever appear, I would gladly be apart of it (always dreamed of leading one) or simply good old Aryan fucking Brotherhood!

EDIT: I support everything Zenophobia and other people have stated in their long comments because they seem to be wanting to put more effort into Prison RP and administrators should pay attention to this suggestion.

3 hours ago, Smith said:

I'd like to see write ups become a thing rather then immediately putting someone in isolation. A minor offence should get you a write up with the possibility of losing special privileges at the discretion of a high ranking CO. These write ups should be allowed to be disputed at a hearing within 15 days and/or with a written letter. 

 

 

Yeah, write ups would be nice.  Always wanted to see them on LSRP.

Uniforms:

Whatever's decided for uniforms, please, for the love of God, not orange jumpsuits.  Outfits like this are better:

Orange jumpsuits are usually only worn for transfers between facilities and things of that nature.  This is what inmates usually wear while they're on the mainline.  Something along these lines, anyway.

12 hours ago, Simeon said:

Less bureaucracy:

If an inmate wants to role play a porter - let them do it. If an inmate wants to role play handing out books or religious material - let them do it. If an inmate wants to role play having some document related to their stay in the prison - let them do it. Don't create systems for every single thing or forum work for inmates. Don't police creativity ("you can't have that"). Just let people have their fun. Should be something that people get behind. Don't have "corruption permissions" for COs if they want to do minor acts of corruption. If a CO wants to smuggle some contraband into prison for one of the gangs - they should be able to do it freely. If a CO wants to open the cells of two rivals "by mistake" so they can fight - they should be able to. Enough pseudo organization methods that only cripple role play, burden people with out of game stuff to do, and slow down progress.

^

I understand where you're coming from, having more of a realistic prison system that keeps people in prison for a longer duration, but we all have to understand that this is a video game.

3 minutes ago, David said:

I understand where you're coming from, having more of a realistic prison system that keeps people in prison for a longer duration, but we all have to understand that this is a video game.

this is supposedly a heavy roleplay server. the point is to be realistic. prison is a punishment.

6 minutes ago, David said:

I understand where you're coming from, having more of a realistic prison system that keeps people in prison for a longer duration, but we all have to understand that this is a video game.

This is a community of people who strive to role-play as realistically as possible using a video game medium. You're playing a video game, yes, but you're on a role-playing server. I don't understand your mindset, you're on a role-playing server to have "fun" and then shut down the chance for realistic role-playing opportunities for the sake of "fun". The whole reason why role-playing servers are a thing is because people deem realistic role-play fun. That's why we're here.